How about a discussion on the advantages, disadvantages, and cost to benefit ratio of a semi-auto vs bolt gun? Both systems with 26" barrels chambered in 308W that both shooting ¾ moa @ 600y.

How much faster would the AR10 be at putting 5 rounds into a 4" circle at 100yds?

How many times in the hunting field have you wished you had a faster follow up shot?

How would the reliability and durability compare? Can an AR10 be built to be at least as reliable and durable as the current AR’s and M4’s?

When would you want one system over the other?

We have done tests from the prone position on 3 shots with 8541 Marines and a variety of other shooters. Each shooter had to fire 3 shots as quilckly as possible and still hit a steel target in the vital zone at 500 meters. The slowest guys with the bolt guns were over 9 seconds, the fastest guy was 7.5 seconds for 3 shots inside 2 moa at that range. Next we had the same shooters repeat the procedure with an SR-25 with an anti-torque brake. The slowest guys were 5 seconds, and the fastest was 2.8 seconds. We let a Pact timer start the clock at the sound of the first shot, so what we actually measured was the recoil recovery time of the first shot plus the time it took launch two follow up shots into the kill zone.

"How much faster would the AR10 be at putting 5 rounds into a 4" circle at 100yds?"

I would say that with a good brake, it would easily be twice as fast, from the prone position in the hands of the most skilled, it could be almost 3 times as fast, with the same or better accuracy.


"How many times in the hunting field have you wished you had a faster follow up shot?"

In the field, Not Often, I really go to great lengths to make the first shot count. In an Urban or defensive situation, ALL THE TIME.


"How would the reliability and durability compare? Can an AR10 be built to be at least as reliable and durable as the current AR’s and M4’s?"

As good or better. Because the gas port can be moved farther from the chamber and the cartridges can be larger, the bolt cycling can be set up to be much less 'finnicky' than an M4. The forged upper and lower are thicker and stronger.


"When would you want one system over the other?"

In most situations I would prefer the Gas semi-Auto hands down. The one serious exception to this would be in severe arctic conditions with limited cleaning supplies and a fixed gas block. With an adjustable gas block, and unlimited access to cleaning, I would still prefer the semi - auto.

Well the answer to that 25 cent question is gonna cost me a couple grand.

Oh well. Speed costs $$$, how fast ya wanna go?

When talking about 'Raw Speed' the answer is obvious. What is not so easy to understand is what happens when you look at reliability when Speed IS ESSENTIAL.

EXAMPLE

At the World Sniper Championships in 2000 they had a mover stage where two shots must be fired in a short period of time. The scenario was repeated at 100, 200, and 300 yards. I had an SR-25 and was the first to finish shooting on every stage, all hits. There was one other guy who had no problems with his AR-10. Two or three shooters with bolt guns on each stage had problems cycling reliably and never got the second shot off...!!!

My point in bringing this up, is that 'ACTUAL' reliability can be different under varying degrees of stress and time available to execute your shots. Remember that Humans are operating the systems.

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When a human operator is brought into the equation a system using a semi-auto now has fewer “moving parts” than a bolt gun?

The semi-auto allows the shooter to focus more on his shooting and not working the bolt?

In a high stress environment have the CRF actions proven to be any more user friendly and reliable than the push feed actions? (Double feeds, short stroking the bolt throw?)

About what could I expect an AR10 with 26” barrel, NF rings and scope to weight empty?

I will weigh one tommorrow in the shop and post it.

I finally got to weighing some AR-10's today.

24" barrel AR-10T no scope or mag is 10.8 lbs.

27" barrel AR-10 300WSM custom I built with no scope or mag is 9.9 lbs.

24" barrel SR25 camoed, bipod, brake, tactical sling, 3.5 x 15 NXS, and magazine with 18 rounds is 15.6 lbs.

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